Q55: Venerable Sir, can you describe someone who, you believe, experienced Nibbāna?

问55：尊者，您可以描述您认为体证了涅槃的人吗？

Yes, I can. Among those who first practiced under my guidance, my cousin called U Phochon was impressive. When he reached the stage of bhanga-ñāna (the fifth level ofVipassanainsight), he started to find trees or people fluxing. He thought something was wrong with his view because he had learned from a teacher that things like a tree, log, post, stone, human body, etc., last for a due period, while physical phenomena caused by one’s kamma or mind passed away immediately after they arose. On the contrary, he saw, at that time, things flux. So he came and asked me what was wrong with his view. I encouraged him saying that nothing was wrong with his view but it was bhanga-ñāna (the fifth level ofVipassanainsight), which helped him to see things passing away immediately. After a few days, he clearly described his experience of Nibbāna, the cessation of mind and body.

是的，在这些人中，我的堂兄乌•珀充是第一个在我指导下修行的人，给我的印象深刻。当他达到坏灭随观智(第五观智)时，他开始发现树木或人都在流变，他想他的所见可能出了问题，因为他曾经从一个老师那里了解到，如树木、圆木、电杆、石头、人体等东西都会持续存在一定时期，而由业或心引生的现象生起即灭。相反，他那时看到一切东西都在流变。于是他来问我他的所见出了什么问题。我鼓励他说他的所见没有任何问题，这是坏灭随观智(第五观智)，此智让他看到事物立即灭去。几天之后，他清楚地描述体证涅槃—名色止息的经历。